please ignore the html.  it's only in there a few times, though.

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#1 

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 ~Sorleymoab

K... here is why same sex marriage should not be allowed. There are certain laws to sex. there are certain laws to marriage.
 if you go and have sex with your mother... that is not right. You are not legally able to marry your mother. it is no
different. it is just another law that people want bending on. what about the people who are madly in love with their
sisters, or brothers, or uncles, or cousins or whatever... it isnt right. there are laws to life people... and breaking
those laws all the time is just stupid. And dont tell me they cant help being gay... thats bull. there is no, and never has
been any scientific evidence that gays are born gay. it IS and always has been a choice. there is plenty of scientific
proof that its not hereditary or a gene. now... if you dont agree with me on all this... you are telling me you think it
should be legal for anyone to be able to marry anyone... and yes that means you and your mom. And dont only think about it
in your own terms... but think of the horrible things it would undoubtedly bring about... deformities we have never seen...
horrible drama... the like... idiocy is what i could sum it up as. Homosexual marriage is just another way to bend the
rules... go ahead and have sex for all i care... but marriage... thats breaking the set rules... and the rules should not
waiver for gays... because then its being 'unfair' to everyone else who has been denied a marriage liscence. its just a
bunch of screwed up crap. Marriage isnt for everyone.



 *phoenixtx

 oh good god. the old "gay marriage leads to incestual, polyagamous bestial marriages!" arguement.

gay marriage is not equatable with incestual marriage.

no, there is no "gay gene" per se. but science is leaning towards hormones in the womb that affect the fetus' sexual
orientation.



 ~Sorleymoab

you majorly missed the point. i didnt say that gay marriage leads to incest, polygamy, or bestial marriages. i said that if
they allow gay marriages... they might as well allow those... otherwise they are being unfair and unjust... and if gays get
to marry eachother why cant i marry my cousin whom is quite attractive and quite nice, and whatever. how come we are giving
gays the right to marriage... when marriage is a God thing... when marriage was invented by God to unite a man and a
woman... God made marriage... marriage is to please God. Why should people who not only dont believe in God, but practice a
sexual act that is not Godly, be let to do so in a binding with God? it doesnt make sense...



 *phoenixtx

no, i did not miss the point. gay marriage is in no way equatable to what you mentioned. just because you allow one does
not mean you can allow the other.
incest is for a very good reason. genetics.
bestiality. well, that's kind of obvious.
poly. not a big clamour for it yet. we'll deal with it when it comes.


 ~Sorleymoab

you are STILL missing the point, because i am NOT saying that it is equatable! i dont see how you get that. I'd like to
challenge your oh-so-thought out logic there. "incest is for a very good reason. genetics." yeah... that is a good reason in
fact! very good reason. maybe you forgot about the reason gay marriage is something i am against... because the almighty God
of the heavens and the earth and YOU whether you like it or not.... says that it is wrong. And whats this stupidity about
bestiality... "well, thats kind of obvious." what freaking evidence do you have that thats... "kind of obvious". Black
people were considered another species in the old times... look at us today... black white people all happy, plenty of black
white marriages... perfectly fine. we think of Animals as a different species... oh... wait what about monkeys! primates
the both of us! lets have a monkey orgy eh? no... there are alterior things... in the bible it says that all men are
created equal... whatever idiot said that black people were another species and whatever... was some gold digging high
roller who wanted money so he forced them to work, calling them another species so it wasnt "bad". it also says in the
bible that it is a sin to have sex with animals... where does it say a sin to have sex with people of another race? it
doesnt! so whatever law it was back then, was not justifiable by the bibles standards no matter who says it was. BUT it is
justifiable by the bible to say that it is a sin to have sex with an animal. and... whoa... it also says that about
homosexual relations! imagine that.


 *phoenixtx

 my, my, such hostility.

the "obvious reason" for bestiality that i mentioned is actually two things.
1) different species.
2) the animal cannot consent.

<I>oh... wait what about monkeys! primates the both of us! lets have a monkey orgy eh?</i>
please tell me this is complete and utter sarcasm and you do realize that we are seperate species?
here's a quick biology lesson:
humans - Homo sapiens sapiens
chimpanzee - Pan troglodytes
gorilla - Gorilla gorilla
bonobo - Pan paniscus


now, gay marriage, both people are consenting. they are the same species. don't have to worry about inbreeding.

and you know what? i don't believe in your god. 2/3 of the world does not believe in your god. why should everyone have to
follow those rules, then? i don't care if you think god is real and is the truth, i really don't. but when it threatens to
override everyone else's choices, then it becomes a problem.
i firmly am in favor of seperation of church and state.
<B>we should not base laws that are created from one religion's book.</b>

and - before you even say it, because it almost always happens: no, this is not a christian nation. yes, christianity has
the highest number of followers, but we have no official religion.
and, the founding fathers were not christian. a few were, but most were deists. so that arguement is void also.


~Sorleymoab

everyone shouldnt have to follow those rules, but when you take something from MY God... and warp it to make it into
something that interlocks two men in a life long relationship under the law... thats bull crap. Thats like you giving me a
special birthday present, say... a book, and i decide rather than keeing it, i give it to my friend... and he burns it,
because he thinks it will make pretty firewood. i know that is a stupid example... im just saying... that marriage IS from
God... and it HAS been warped, and they are now using OUR religious traditions, to sanctify the marriage of two men, which
is against our beliefs. that isnt any good.


 *phoenixtx

 how are they using your religious traditions to sanctify homosexual marriage?
i don't see it.
besides, no one is forcing your religion to change and allow it.
bare minimum, secular marriage should be allowed for homosexuals, and a religion marriage in those
churches/mosques/etc when/if they consent.



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#2 (he responded to my second comment in the first arguement)
at first glance, i honestly thought his username was "moronboy"
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 ~MOrngeboy

 <I>just because you allow one does not mean you can allow the other.</i>

You've just described descrimination. The primary word supporting gay marriage. The idea is that if we allow heterosexual
marriage, we must allow homosexual marriage. The point that Sorleymoab is trying to make, is that we are also
descriminating against polygamy, beastiality, and incestual marriage.

Molygamy is discriminating against polygamy.
Inter species (man/woman, woman/woman, man/man) marriages are descriminating against beastial marriages.
And incestual marriages are being descriminated against for the same reason that heterosexual marriage is.

More than 50,000 people are performing polygamy in Utah alone! What about them? It's illegal, and the only reason it isn't
being inforced is because there are so many, and because wives complain that the fathers to their families are being ripped
from their homes. By making it illegal, we are descriminating against them.

Love can exist anywhere. If between a man and a man and a woman and a woman, why not between a person and an animal? There
is, of course, no reason that an animal and a person would need a marriage economically. But, we are depriving them of the
respect that a "love" relationships deserves. Atleast according to homosexual marraige supporters, such as yourself.

Incest? Homosexuals have proven that marriage is NOT about producing babies. If a man gets castrated, can he marry his mom
or sister? And, if we're so worried about deformation, what about the millions of women who constantly give birth to
deformed babies because they're on crack and drugs? My friend is a nurse. Yesterday she told me that she has a patient that
has given birth to 4 children. Each baby was severely deformed and had to be kept in an incubator. Why? Because the mother
has a drug problem. Yet, she is constantly allowed to keep having deformed babies. Why not make a law altogethar declaring
that a woman can not have a baby if her previous 2 were deformed?

The word: descrimination. Powerful when used for good, but completely destructive when used irresponsibly.


*phoenixtx

 a quick google search combined with basic math = roughly 45000. (the actual number i got i rounded up).
that is not "more than 50,000 people".
technically, it's illegal, but they are still getting married. at least they can get married. if there ever is a large
outcry, saying that it should be perfectly legal - hell, good for them.

<I>Homosexuals have proven that marriage is NOT about producing babies</i>
when did i say it was? besides, they still can have kids. artificial insemination. or plain adoption.

<I>If a man gets castrated, can he marry his mom or sister</i>
if both are sterile and possess no capability to reproduce? hell, i could care less.
most people have strong taboos against this, and i highly doubt there are many out there that want to carry on an incestual
relationship.

as for the deformed babies - yes, that is very sad. but how the fuck do you tie together a women having deformed babies and
homosexual marriage?